Training to Stop on a Dime

[spalmi]

Been training with glute-ham activating WGF methods and LDISO's for years now and the number 1 thing I can say is that I have went from a quad dominant runner-squatter to a ham-glute dominant. In fact my training sprinting or squatting always leads to sore hams and glutes. While this is exactly what I wanted, I'm getting concerned about my quads. No doubt I have lost size there and "probably" strength. I'm starting to get concerned with my body's ability to decelerate and cut. Chris mentioned a machine in another post that I don't have access to. I'm wondering what else I should add to my workouts to work those quads. Tried sissy squats and they killed my knees right away. I'm thinking maybe drops, maybe isometrics, but I can't think of anything with weight to concentrically work this area. It's funny sites list things like squats and steps ups for the quad. But I don't see how step ups are quad targeting, unless your doing them wrong.

[sjl]

http://evolutionaryathletics.wordpre...letic-success/

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/footballspeed1.html

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/footballspeed2.html

Some good ideas in there. Do you do the single leg squat iso? It's been helping me out some as well. Altitude drops of all kinds are great if you have the necessary preparation.

[spalmi]

I have not done any traditional ISO's in a while. I do see how drops could help, I would imagine the quad is helping to absorb the force.


Thanks for the articles, reading through Kelly's stuff he stresses the hams and glutes which for start strength I see as being very important, and he talks about drops and quick feet, which for energy transfer I see as important, but should the quad ever be the prime mover in your training? With concentric training? I think stopping would be an eccentric quad movement. Now you do get that from the downward control portion of a squat, and Alex's stuff is pretty much squat-lunge variations which again would tax the quads, but will they tax them enough? And again is their any reason to train the quad as a concentric muscle? At this point I think I would argue probably not because during gait your quad is used to lift the knee, but you never have any resistance.

[sjl]

I think you would find some tight stance high bar squats very helpful over time.

By single leg squat I meant the iso extreme version which elongates the psoas and rectus femoris.

Also, just practice cutting. Run to a cone and stop. Run to a cone and change direction. Let yourself recover and you'll get better at this stuff pretty fast.

As a last thought, moreso than sprinting fast deceleration is about having mass and being strong. Not sure why but empirically it seems to be the case. Football players around me get bigger and can still cut but their top speed seems negatively effected.

[adarqui]

to stop on a dime, first and foremost, practice stopping on a dime.. sprint + decel work, cuts, agility drills etc.. that should be the first tool in the arsenal.. plenty of progress can be made just doing that stuff.

I love sprint + decel work. I choose a sprint distance and then pick a zone to decelerate within, for example, say 20 yard sprint, 5 yard deceleration zone. It's still pretty hard on the hamstrings though. I usually go 10-20 yards on those drills for the sprint, then try and stop as fast as possible. If you do any of that, just make sure you are warmed up very well, it's pretty intense. You can do that stuff in all directions etc, possibilities are endless. The hardest one imo is back pedal sprint to sprint forward, that transition phase is ridiculous and pretty scary, the ankles get loaded up extreme.. I'm still taking my time with it though, not pushing it.

peace

[spalmi]

No I have not been doing the 1 leg squat LDISO because it was not in the plan I bought grom Jay. But I dont do the lunge and ham stretch and the quad area does get work on those exercises.

Now that it's summer in New England I have been out sprinting, running drills, cutting drills, ply'o's, ect.

My question really though was on traditional weightlifting training for sports. For the quads people recommend squats, step-ups, and lunges. But now my body is trained to use the glutes and hams as the prime movers on those exercises. So I was wondering how people work the quads in the gym? However judging by the answer and thinking about it more. The idea of "brakes" is an eccentric movement for the quads, and you do get that from the exercises I mentioned above and of course drops. And the concentric use of the quads is propably not that important to an athlete since the lifting of you quad in gait has no resistance and probably not that important.

[sjl]

The 'motor pattern' from weightlifting won't carry over too much to the field if you are sprinting fairly often. So regardless of the type of quad contraction, if they get bigger while you are often sprinting and cutting, and you aren't excessively tired you should be able to cut better. Also work on your technique as in AlexV's article - biggest thing to focus is on is sinking your hips and getting your whole cleat in the ground.

That said I've noticed iso extremes to dramatically change my landing technique. Cutting is already easier without too much practice

[spalmi]

Thanks for the tips.

[Kellyb]

Thanks for the articles, reading through Kelly's stuff he stresses the hams and glutes which for start strength I see as being very important, and he talks about drops and quick feet, which for energy transfer I see as important, but should the quad ever be the prime mover in your training? With concentric training? I think stopping would be an eccentric quad movement.

Very good question. I usually operate from the assumption that if people are on any sorta strength training program they're usually getting enough quad stimulation. If you do squats or single leg lifts at all you can't help but hit the quads heavily so progressing in those movements tends to take care of things. They're your prime movers or at least very important in initial acceleration, agility, and deceleration. The glutes tend to be more difficult to hit and it's more common to find people who for the most part have been training correctlhy for a good length of time and still have weak glutes.

[west58]

KB,

You would be surprised how many people lack in quadricep strength...even those athletes who spend a lot of time in the squat rack. I bet I come across at least 25% of athletes who are lacking in this area. Is it equal to athletes who are lacking in ham and glute strength? No...not even close. But it only takes a couple of minutes to put someone in a leg extension machine to see if this is the case. I know many people are afraid of the leg extension machine because they were taught that it caused "shear" forces in the knee joint. This isn't true. In fact, you get more shear forces when performing a lunge than a leg extension.

I'm still experimenting with athletes/runners when it comes to leg extension. a large percentage of runners who stay in constant leg flexion, lack ecentric quadricep strength. Their bodies/joints never allow the end range to be challenged....and for good reason. However, this isn't a hard ingrained rule. Unfortunately, there are very few rules that apply to every one. If an athlete has suffered a lot of hamstring injuries or constant tightness, there is a pretty good reason to believe that one of the quadricep muscles is either weak or inhibited or both.