my force absorption / plyometric ability progress

[adarqui]

well, i know this forum loves stuff like this, so why not post it here.. anyway, i've been on some crazy bodyweight experiment for say 4-5 months or so, and i'm starting to really step up the intensity of my training by introducing force absorption/plyometric training.. i've been implementing it for about 2 weeks and i'm really seeing some insane gains in power.

keep in mind i have ADD on FA stuff, so you won't ever see me pausing for more than 1 second.. also my form is a bit "customized", i teach more of how WGF teaches squat ADA but i do mine pretty different.. someone with my leverages though, I've had them do it in a similar manner.

i'll update this thread when i make some nice progress on FA/RA stuff, only bodyweight.

squat ada vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_mt-Icw6AQ
- drops get better as vid goes along, very small warmup so it took some reps to get going.
- that box height is about 35" or something.
- goal is to stick these from 42-45" just like that, effortlessly, in 6 months.

split squat ada vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD3spU8_MY4
- happy with these..
- first two sets off ~18", 3rd set is higher around 20+"
- goal for these is to stick them off that 35" box.

"stiff leg" ankle hops: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57W3xFJIyo8
- not as stiff as i would like, thats for sure.. body is "afraid" to land completely stiff when going max effort.
- goal = repeat max effort stiff leg hops for 5 reps, getting about 30" on each.


any thoughts?

my goal on RVJ is 40+.. it took me nearly two years to get 35" RVJ when i was using weightlifting methods, many setbacks due to injury.. on this bodyweight crap (after 6 months complete detraining becoming a slob), i've gotten back to 35" rvj off a run up.. my power has gone through the roof lately, relative to my ability.. but im going for some major numbers by 6 months.. i feel much better with this style of training than with weightlifting, and my work capacity has gone apeshit.

here's a vid of where i currently am at, i've recently switched to jumping in my track flats so my full run up is suffering a bit, but my power is way up on svj/1-step/2-step and 3-step verts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGbHJxLqPa8


peace

[chrisk]

You need upper ab work. You collapse in your upper torso on all of your drops and lead with chin.

[adarqui]

Originally Posted by chrisk

You need upper ab work. You collapse in your upper torso on all of your drops and lead with chin.

thanks, will get on it.

[coachB]

Adarqui,
On the squat ADA do you like to vary the arms? I have athletes do that once they understand quality. Do you use pull aparts with bands for your upper middle back? You get better as you get into the set. Nice. The split squat is very nice. I'll have some of my athletes look at this. Great quality and content. Thanks.

[adarqui]

Originally Posted by coachB

Adarqui,
On the squat ADA do you like to vary the arms? I have athletes do that once they understand quality.

well, I just kind of do that naturally on depth drops. On depth jumps I have basically the same technique every rep, but on drops, it does seem to change a bit subconsciously for sure.

Do you use pull aparts with bands for your upper middle back?

Nope, I don't really do much upper body other than a few sets of pullups or chinups + dips nearly every day. I should be doing much more, especially my shoulder prehab. I usually train very late at night, so doing upper body in my back yard in florida is a pain, mosquitos everywhere. It becomes a cardio session having to avoid them :P

You get better as you get into the set. Nice. The split squat is very nice. I'll have some of my athletes look at this. Great quality and content. Thanks.

Thanks man! I will keep trying to get better and increase the intensity over these next 6 months or so, hopefully I can drop some really nice videos.

I got lots of hamstring/glute soreness from that session of drops, which was nice. My left heel acted up a bit though, probably due to the surface I'm dropping on & the increase in intensity (from 30 to ~35 height). So I got to be careful with that.

My next rebound session is today (tuck jumps/stiff leg ankle hops etc). Next drop session will probably be monday/tuesday or so.

peace man!

[west58]

I was looking at your split drops and I would not consider these ADA drops...but a hybrid REA and ADA drop. Thanks for sharing these. You are still moving at impact and you hop right back up very quickly...legs and the hips. It appears that your legs want to bounce up at impact...which is a good thing but we don't know for sure because you don't pause long enough at landing.

The ADA drops in the old video clips in inno-sport are not the finished product you should desire for unless body structure is the limiting factor. However, it might be the best that an athlete can offer based on their current strength levels. Landing with the torso upright will require ample leg extension and even spinal extension...which every athlete may not have...not to mention trunk strength anterior and posterior. Why should you desire an erect torso and neutral hip position? Because we want to distribute the force absorbed throughout the body. The more force you can distribute, the more force you can absorb. Secondly, if you can land upright in correctly position, it is a good indicator that all of your muscles are orchestrated and working in sync....especially under that amount of force!! (Another reason why drops are great for sport preparation) It should not be about getting one or two groups of muscles strong in order to improve your performance. Sure you can experience improvements using that mentality, but you are only as strong as your weakest link.

If you are feeling a lot of soreness and tightness in your glutes or hams, it is a good indicator that something isn't optimum. Some soreness is normal...especially when dropping from that high.

When moving, our bodies will often move to a position of strength or another way of looking at it would be the body is compensating and moving away from a positional weakness or musclular weakness. This can be true at times, but its hard to make a rule. For example, often times you will see a person medially rotate their legs when jumping or landing and this is because their medial muscles, such as vastis medialis, or medial gatroc or even foot muscles are not strong enough to inhibit premature pronation. But perhaps the more important thing to look at in movement is the word "positional" strength." This means a hamstring muscles may be really strong at x degrees knee flexion but really weak or even inhibited at Z degrees...or strong internally rotated but weak externally rotated.

The body will only go as fast or high as it can stop or absorb. So how you develop ecentric strength is up for debate. Drops are high velocity and high force. I tend to believe you need to improve ecentric strength with LDISOS's so orchestration is optimum, and then start dropping. I guess you could also argue that you are training at velocity with a LDISO...but certainly the movement isn't.

[Fred]

I'm no expert on drops like west just proved again with his interesting feedback. However what I do notice when you're doing your jumps to the rim is that you stare at it the whole time. Which makes your torso very upright before take-off, you "put on the brakes" too much, losing some horizontal momentum because of this. It's even more obvious when you do the jumps with one step. Maybe you should try looking a few yards on the ground in front of you for a split second as you plant the feet. You would certainly benefit a couple of inches gains in your vertical from the torso inclinaison and resulting hip extension.

[adarqui]

Originally Posted by west58

I was looking at your split drops and I would not consider these ADA drops...but a hybrid REA and ADA drop. Thanks for sharing these. You are still moving at impact and you hop right back up very quickly...legs and the hips. It appears that your legs want to bounce up at impact...which is a good thing but we don't know for sure because you don't pause long enough at landing.

ya definitely, and yes my body doesn't want to hold positions it wants to move, definitely a sensation I have.. i've never really liked to pause anything, maybe it's just my nature, I always want to rebound. weirdness.

The ADA drops in the old video clips in inno-sport are not the finished product you should desire for unless body structure is the limiting factor. However, it might be the best that an athlete can offer based on their current strength levels. Landing with the torso upright will require ample leg extension and even spinal extension...which every athlete may not have...not to mention trunk strength anterior and posterior. Why should you desire an erect torso and neutral hip position? Because we want to distribute the force absorbed throughout the body. The more force you can distribute, the more force you can absorb. Secondly, if you can land upright in correctly position, it is a good indicator that all of your muscles are orchestrated and working in sync....especially under that amount of force!! (Another reason why drops are great for sport preparation) It should not be about getting one or two groups of muscles strong in order to improve your performance. Sure you can experience improvements using that mentality, but you are only as strong as your weakest link.

you bring up good points here.

If you are feeling a lot of soreness and tightness in your glutes or hams, it is a good indicator that something isn't optimum. Some soreness is normal...especially when dropping from that high.

well, for the most part the soreness is significant but not crazy.. I get crazy soreness when I VJ to SS ADA from an 18" box etc, which seems to be a hell of alot of overload.. I havn't done those in a while though..

When moving, our bodies will often move to a position of strength or another way of looking at it would be the body is compensating and moving away from a positional weakness or musclular weakness. This can be true at times, but its hard to make a rule. For example, often times you will see a person medially rotate their legs when jumping or landing and this is because their medial muscles, such as vastis medialis, or medial gatroc or even foot muscles are not strong enough to inhibit premature pronation. But perhaps the more important thing to look at in movement is the word "positional" strength." This means a hamstring muscles may be really strong at x degrees knee flexion but really weak or even inhibited at Z degrees...or strong internally rotated but weak externally rotated.

The body will only go as fast or high as it can stop or absorb. So how you develop ecentric strength is up for debate. Drops are high velocity and high force. I tend to believe you need to improve ecentric strength with LDISOS's so orchestration is optimum, and then start dropping. I guess you could also argue that you are training at velocity with a LDISO...but certainly the movement isn't.

Yea I prefer drops and isotonic lifts. I have been doing something pretty nutty lately, for the last month or so I've been doing 400 walking lunges each leg, trying to land at parallel or lower, on ball of foot. I was only using bodyweight on this, for say, once every 4th/5th day. Recently I've decided to step it up, last session was 400 each leg using 10 lb db's. I thought I was going to be wrecked in terms of soreness, but to my surprise I wasn't.

I get light hamstring soreness from these sessions, and pretty heavy glute soreness.. I get absolutely no quad soreness whatsoever, though, the first few times I did it, I had quad soreness for 7 days (as well as ham/glute)... So some pretty insane adaptations have been taking place, plus the circumference of my thigh/vmo (right above patella at thickest part of vmo teardrop) has gone up bigtime. My legs feel pretty bioninc I must say... these sessions are pretty tough but doable with good form the entire session, I do sets of 50 each leg (100 total), so 8 x 100 total.

Tomorrow I'm most likely filming an entire session, going to be doing 400 each leg with 30 lb db's.. I'm pushing the weight up alot because I want to see what my limits are before I just can't complete this type of workout.

Peace

[adarqui]

Originally Posted by Fred

I'm no expert on drops like west just proved again with his interesting feedback. However what I do notice when you're doing your jumps to the rim is that you stare at it the whole time. Which makes your torso very upright before take-off, you "put on the brakes" too much, losing some horizontal momentum because of this. It's even more obvious when you do the jumps with one step. Maybe you should try looking a few yards on the ground in front of you for a split second as you plant the feet. You would certainly benefit a couple of inches gains in your vertical from the torso inclinaison and resulting hip extension.

interesting post, i've never really had any lean in my plant, i'd have to try it submax to even get an idea of what it feels like.. I do absolutely no thinking when I jump besides "jump as high as possible" or "touch the top of backboard" (which I obviously can't do.... lol).

here is a thread I created on various dunker's plants, might be some nice pictures in here for people who are interested in the plant/torso angle etc:

http://www.adarq.org/forum/crazy-wei...umpers-plants/

^^^ beware, lots of pics, let it load for a little bit.

if anything, i'd say my plant most resembles Air Up There's, the first guy in the thread... Golden Child also but, he seems to have a bit more torso lean than me in alot of other vids/pics i've seen of him.







any thoughts on this vid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZOzwYIH3Hs

my best jumping to date... I started lifting again, broke my bodyweight only training system, because my damn plantar fasciitis came back in my left foot... so being pissed off and not being able to jump EVERY DAY got me back into some weightlifting, though I am keeping it pretty light as of now, just squat singles with nearly bodyweight, more working on speed, jump squats, weighted pullups/weighted dips, etc.... so far so good though.

I'm very upright in that video hehe.






plant:

[adarqui]

wut teh F.




someone shopped me: